Remember the cumulative tales about Chicken Little who believed the world was coming to an end and was leaping about in hysteria and paranoia? Well the front page of Noosa News on Tuesday 5/2/19 about the Noosa River’s biodiversity (in BIG trouble it said) reeked of the exact same thing, with Mayor Wellington and NBRF’s Barnes ringing alarm bells frantically.
Why was it necessary for the Biosphere Foundation and the Mayor to declare the river all but dead when the scientific research is in its early days, indeterminate and reliable findings a long way off? The more I read about the river from these sources, the less I understand – it’s all very confusing.
Consider the following:
- The central proposition of the doomsday message we received was that ‘similar’ research from 20 years ago indicates an 85% decline in marine animal life. This immediately raises so many questions like: Why hasn’t the NRBF in its 11 years of existence with considerable funding devised a long-term strategic framework for all scientific research? Why are we throwing around opinions, making strategic planning decisions and spending considerable money on matters often based on anecdote, ad hoc studies and inconsistent information and data?We have seen how many consultants and researchers? involved in Noosa River issues but there is not one consistent and directly comparable data base established over time. Surely it makes sense to set and implement a long-term goal here so we can all see and believe what we are being told?
- When you have USC, as the scientific arm of the oyster reef trial, working within the Benthic Layer (the one that the Mayor and NRBF say is destroyed!), why is it necessary to introduce another player such as UQ. Surely USC folk could have done the same comparison between the State EPA’s 1998 research and sample today? Soon we will have the USA headquartered Nature Conservancy (TNC) providing their advice – at a cost of course.These days the scientific community is very much global with scientists collaborating on many issues no matter where they be. So why is it necessary, as a point of principle, to bring in the services of a multinational instead of working with, supporting and developing local talent such as that which exists at USC? Is it the glitz and glamour of hanging the TNC shingle over the Council chambers that is so attractive? Does it really value-add to such a degree that we can put our hands on our hearts and say… ‘we cant buy this support in Australia’?
How can anyone be so categoric at this stage on this subject as are Barnes and Wellington when:
- The paper they are using is only an interim, not a final, report, as research and analysis has not yet been completed by the authors (“an annual report to the funding bodies” (p3))
- The findings so far are not conclusive because additional sampling has been done on which analysis is not yet complete
– “These samples have all been processed and final checking of the identification of the fauna is being completed at present” (p2)
– “repeat sampling…was considered a critical and appropriate response given the apparent marked changes over the 20 year period” (p11) - There were problems with sampling in the Noosa River channel, so analysis of data has only been done for Lake Cootharaba, Lake Cooroibah and Lake Weyba catchments. “Problems with sampling gear meant that some of the samples collected in the Noosa Channel were incomplete … Only the samples from the other three catchments were therefore analysed.” (p6)
- There is doubt about what the data is telling us: “More animals does not always indicate a cleaner or healthier environment” (p8)
- If there is a problem, causes are far from clear: “Between the sampling done in 1998 and 2018, we cannot determine directly the causes of any differences that may occur” (p10) “Analysis of changes in which species are found in the sediments in the two time periods may give us insights into potential explanations for the differences though and these can then form the basis of new hypotheses about the causes which can be tested in the main part of the sampling program”
Let me go a step further. Without paying a cent for consultants, I read SETAC’s ‘Using Bayesian Networks to Predict Risk to Estuary Water Quality and Patterns of Benthic Environmental DNA in Queensland‘ by Western Washington University/Macquarie University – Integrated Environmental Assessment and Management — Volume 15, Number 1—pp. 93–111 10 August 2018. This is a mouthful, but read on.
SETAC (Society of Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry) is dedicated to the use of multidisciplinary approaches to examine the impacts of chemicals and technology on the environment, and its recent work has included comprehensive scientific studies in conjunction with scientists from CSIRO here in the Noosa River.
This work is fundamentally about predictive modelling using DNA sampling for biodiversity measurement. Using a network of probability distributions, the model predicts risk to water quality objectives and the relative richness of benthic taxa groups in the Noosa River.
Results of the modeling, given current inputs, indicate that the water quality and benthic assemblages of the Noosa are relatively homogenous across all sub-risk regions and that the Noosa River has a 73%–92% probability of achieving water quality objectives, indicating a low relative risk.
So why is a shadow of doubt being cast over water quality?
The benthic community richness patterns associated with risk in the Noosa are high diatom relative richness and low green algae relative richness. The only benthic pattern consistently associated with the relatively higher risk to water quality is high richness of fungi species.
The authors acknowledge that “the Noosa estuary, as a tourist destination that abuts a national park, is designated of high ecological value by stakeholders. Estuaries with higher ecological value have different water quality objectives than those with a lower designation, and the relative risk calculations in their model will reflect these differences. This regionalisation process took many attributes of the estuaries into account including (in order of importance):
- management goals (i.e., water quality objectives for the Lower Noosa estuary versus the Middle Noosa estuary);
- relationships between variables in the estuary;
- salinity gradients;
- land use; and
- location of point sources
Benthic eDNA data
Scientists from CSIRO, Australia’s national science agency, collected the sediment samples and sequenced the eDNA data used in this risk assessment. The surface sediment eDNA samples were collected by CSIRO during two sampling events (Summer 2010 and Autumn 2012) from the Noosa River which were evaluated in the risk assessment presented in this manuscript, eDNA from Noosa River was used for determining the water quality predictors in their model.
The Noosa benthic taxa PPDs are similar for all sub-regions, meaning there are not many differences along the salinity gradient from the Lower to the Upper risk regions. This same trend was observed in the water quality, with similar high probability of meeting objectives in all sub-regions.
Water quality results
Risk of not achieving water quality objectives is higher in the Pine and Logan estuaries than in the Noosa River. The Noosa River has low risk of not achieving objectives in all sub-regions, and the endpoint expected values and PPDs do not differ between sub-regions.
The homogeneity of the water quality of the Noosa River is also reflected in the eDNA benthic richness patterns. There are consistent trends in benthic taxa richness for regions that have greater than a 50% chance of achieving water quality objectives for at least one variable. These regions include the Noosa River. Of the five SEQ rivers tested, the Noosa estuary has the lowest nutrient and turbidity levels, but has the lowest fungi richness.
What I am highlighting here is that there are very credible existing world-class biodiversity modelling techniques that have already been used on our beloved Noosa River that paint a different picture to that which we have been exposed in recent days.
It is a picture that demands we take a step back and question where we are going before we commit more and more of our hard-earned cash to ‘learn as you go’ techniques. Chicken Little is wrong – the sky will not fall tomorrow! We have time to challenge ourselves and not be driven into predefined outcomes.
Can we please stop the scaremongering. Can we please get structured, consistent, measured long-term research. Can we please stop spending serious money until we have some absolutes about the river and not speculation. And finally can we please keep the money in Australia.
Nick your well written article is missing a lot of local knowledge so I will try and help you out with what is known by locals. Firstly I need to explain that there is two completely different stories here that have become entwined to each other but are totally different. The story as you tell it was quite relevant in the past it seemed but the reality was absolutely nothing like what your story points out. The story as the locals knew it was that the NPA and NBRF fumbled around for ten years trying to come up with poorly researched answers to the obvious problems. They never found the cause which was the 2,3,7,8,tetraclorodibenzo-P-dioxin TCDD in the water caused from Agent Orange spraying in the Head waters of the Noosa river and then made much worse by the impure 24-D that land owners were forced to use by law. The 24-D spraying continued for more than thirty years which increased the levels of TCDD to dangerous for all living beings. The levels in the river have fluctuated with the severe rain events over the years and have been that strong that we have seen two headed fish breeding in this river at times. As the years went by this chemical, which has a lab shelf half life of two centuries, just kept getting stronger. It has now wiped out most of the populations of all the marine life.
Going through it for you piece by piece it goes like this. No scientific reports ever done on the river before 2018 ever tested for the chemical TCDD. As the Commonwealth Government had made laws about no testing was allowed for this chemical, because it was trying to hide it’s Agent Orange spraying through the entity APM which was closed down and the records were burnt publicly in the street in front of head office in Brisbane, none of the science ever picked up it was there. Because of that the contamination continued for 51 years so far. All of the science you quote is totally outdated by the finding of the TCDD contamination. The TCDD puts the river and entire ecosystem in a whole new realm we have never before seen in Australia. We have seen a micro version of what has happened here by the entire Vietnam war and the spraying that was done to that country and the surrounding countries. As they had similar contents sprayed on them for a year and a half in the worst hit areas it gives us a micro view of what we have endured for 51 years. The main difference between us and them is that they were actually soaked in the spray which had a horrific consequence for the people. Their environments were also wiped out but the human toll took the focus away from the damage to the environment. As studies continued with the environment a lot was learnt.
The ABC program Four Corners aired a documentary on Agent Orange in 2012 which showed the lone study the Military officials chose to expose the effects of Agent Orange. The show pointed out that all of the people in the original study had suffered horrendous illnesses from the AO spraying and had died from related illness. The program looked into what was the killer part of this chemical. They tested both ingredients of AO and with the 245-T they found extreme levels of three dioxins the worst being TCDD. The TCDD was immediately recognised as the killer toxin in the mix. They then studied the 24-D which was not supposed to have any TCDD in it. What they found was that the 24-D contained levels of TCDD more than a hundred times the allowable limit to be used in Australia under the Australian Poisons Act. So in fact when these two chemicals were mixed together the levels of TCDD were fatal to anything that came into contact with it sooner or later. They notified the Government and the APVMA of their findings but both didn’t see that as a problem and didn’t ever do anything about it.
When I saw this program I went online to the ABC and followed the links to the lab reports on all of the testing they did. I was astounded that all the testing they had done over a ten year period on 24-D had shown every brand sold in Australia was extremely high in TCDD and was not allowed to be used in this country at all ever. This made me research where it had all gone wrong and what really happened. As I had thirty years of practical knowledge spraying Agent Orange and 24-D it made it very easy to spot false reports. After 2400 hours of study and saving myself ten of thousands of hours reading false reports I got to the bottom of the whole story. What had happened was before 1958 24-D was made in a refrigerated environment and filtered for a month to clean the TCDD caused from making it. Lab results for all of this were made and kept. Those results allowed the use of 24-D in food and drinking water because it didn’t contain any dioxin. During 1958 the USA Military decided it was going to use Agent Orange in war so ordered twenty million gallons of each chemical (24-D/245-T). Because DOW Chemicals didn’t have a hope of producing that much chemical they had to make some huge changes. They contacted ICI chemicals in England and enlisted their help to produce that much chemical ready for warfare. Because the 24-D making method was so slow there was no way that much chemical could be produced in the time frame given. After careful consideration both companies decided that making the 24-D in a warmer environment without allowing it the time to filter out the TCDD was the best way forward. This new method allowed them to make the amount of chemical with ease. The companies knew that the 24-D contained extreme levels of TCDD that wasn’t filtered out but didn’t see that as a problem because it was being made to mix with 245-T which already contained this TCDD anyway. The new method of making the 24-D was that quick that a huge surplus was soon realised. Even though at that stage the TCDD had been studied to have a half shelf life of two hundred years a decision was made by both companies to keep producing this chemical this new way. They both realised that between them they owned every laboratory that was capable of testing for TCDD and also that every major country in the world has a system where the Regulations are made from the lab reports produced not from testing contents. They realised that if they used the old lab reports from the way it was made before 1958 they could sell the impure 24-D to the world. They both ghost wrote the lab reports enabling them to make trillions of dollars from this impure chemical.
What that meant to Noosa was after being initially sprayed with the exact mixture of Agent Orange the TCDD had continued to be sprayed over the entire Shire for thirty continuous years. This raised the TCDD levels to far beyond the worst areas of Vietnam and dangerous to us all. This has happened without anyone ever noticing or testing for this chemical. That is the missing link that explains everything that has ever happened in the Noosa ecosystem. It negates almost all of the reports used before 2018. It alters every single finding and every single proposal to do anything in the river. The river cannot be fixed until this chemical TCDD is brought under control. At present it is set to kill every living thing in this ecosystem bit by bit. Nothing can survive it. It is in our catchment areas for our drinking water as well as the river system. If you understand that they have only just been able to start testing for TCDD because of my revelations you would also understand why Lake MacDonald is being drained to 80% in the coming days. They will test the TCDD levels in the exposed sediment and also in the reduced amount of water to see what variations arise. Another part you aren’t aware of is that the SCU is not qualified or accredited to test for TCDD but the University of Queensland not only is but contains the ENTOX unit which is dedicated to TCDD testing in Australia. That University is the only one accredited to study TCDD in Australia. It was run by Professor Caroline Gaus but she retired the day I sent a letter to her explaining what had happened. The ENTOX unit has been in a silent frenzy testing madly for the TCDD they are finding in this system. They are working with the CSIRO to keep detached from local knowledge of what they are doing. They will no doubt be highly involved in the testing for TCDD when the lake reaches 80% so we might hopefully get the news that our water supply is not fit for human consumption and a new reservoir will have to be constructed in a less toxic area away from this catchment area. Don’t get me wrong I am not glad they will find the TCDD contamination I will just be glad when they announce it so an entirely new direction can be diligently worked out. At this stage we need to concentrate more on what is happening to the humans in this area than the oysters but they all need saving. Once the Lake levels are further tested they should be starting to get a better idea of how bad the contamination is.
As usual the Noosa Council has taken the most expensive option to try and hopelessly measure what they wont ever know. I have tried to advise the Environment officer at the Council they are going down the wrong path but he hasn’t returned my repeated calls. They cannot work out accurate levels of TCDD contamination by testing sediment or water quality. That will change with every rain event or sediment stir from boat traffic. The method needed to accurately measure the TCDD levels hasn’t even been thought of by anyone from any of these departments yet. It seems only Professor Gaus and myself know the correct formula to accurately work it out. I don’t blame her for retiring because I too am sick of trying to explain it all to this Council. As usual the Government is still showing it’s incompetence in dealing with TCDD in this area. They all lack direction and knowledge of this dioxin and that will eventually kill us all if it doesn’t change.
You could call it scare tactics if you didn’t fully understand the constraints involved in this multi Government blunder. None of them will admit they got it wrong so at the moment it is more who is going to prove what. As this is all above science we will have to wait for all of the Government departments to do all the testing to prove what I am telling them. When they work it all out we will all realise that it wasn’t scare tactics more like preparing us for the horrific news to come. This is no Chicken Little it is the worst chemical contamination on this planet in the history of mankind. The sooner everyone does their homework diligently the quicker we will start to work on solutions. All oyster restoration activities should be ceased immediately and a new entity formed solely to deal with the TCDD contamination. As this contamination is widespread over most of populated Australia there will need to be an advisory panel formed that can accurately advise the public on best measures to deal with it. They wont be able to hide it from Mainstream media for much longer as it gets quite hard to explain why they are draining the town water supply for testing. Just like it’s getting harder to justify why the locals should be paying for oyster regeneration in an environment that will knowingly kill them. Now the Noosa Council has decided to share the wealth around and pay a foreign entity to also waste ratepayers money on a known failure. It is a crying shame that the good people that have put all the time in , mostly volunteer work, and the amazing donations from the people that really care about this environment have all gone to waste because the science was too poor. The locals had to find all of this out themselves and then keep trying to educate the Government on all levels. I wont go into all of the science you have quoted because absolutely none of it mentions the TCDD contamination so is poorly researched scientific jargon based on scientific similarities elsewhere. Every single bit of this science is not telling the real picture. It is not known whether the story isn’t being told because of Government classifications or hesitation about the legal ramifications from the general public. Either way we will keep suffering until science works all of this out.
I hope this local knowledge brings you more up to date with what is really going on behind the scenes. There seems to be a few locals that have arrived in the last twenty years that aren’t aware of how all this happened so I took the time to enlighten you. I hope it helps you to far better understand everything you mention in this article and why the river is in such a decline. There is a lot more to this story but that is enough to type for one letter. This is accurate and true information and all information can be freely accessed by internet. I welcome every check possible on every part of my information. The change in the way the chemical was made was proven in a USA Court in 2006. Australian Governments and the APVMA were notified by me in May 2018 of all of this information. The APVMA called for immediate testing of 24-D and as a result more than ten major suppliers of this chemical withdrew their products from sale in Australia as they new it would not pass the testing procedures.
When will the media start standing up for all the people that offer their services for free to restore this ecosystem to the way we knew it. This is not related to any other form of pollution and absolutely annihilates any and all pollution man can achieve in this contaminated area. Everyone has done what they can to fix this but no one was ever given the real story to work with until now. Isn’t it time everyone came clean and told the truth? The locals are just seeing blatant lies and totally wasted revenue on worthless ideas that without a doubt should be financed by higher levels of Government. TNC does not have the expertise to change anything in this contaminated environment and should not be allowed into this ecosystem. This needs to be controlled by the Australian Government every step of the way to make sure the chemical companies aren’t just trying to hide the facts longer so the next generation have to worry about it instead of them. Not only that but because this contamination is so widespread in Australia it would be ludicrous to pay a foreign entity trillions of dollars to fix it when Australia could create an entire new industry that is guaranteed work for the next Four Hundred years. The Trillions of Dollars it will take to fix this contamination should stay in Australia not be paid to foreign entities that claim success without ever knowing what they are dealing with. Noosa Council should set the precents in dealing with this contamination for the rest of the country. That means that Noosa Council should thank the TNC for their generous offer but decline because they have identified a problem that wasn’t realised at the original time of their engagement. They should advise that an Australian entity needs to be set up to directly deal with TCDD contamination, which they were unable to identify, because of future requirements for this to be in place. If donations are still forthcoming to deal with this contamination they should go to a new entity set up solely by Australians for Australians. We do not need other countries profiting from the poisons they put here. If you would like to know more about all of this ask me or set up a press meeting with the Mayor and the CEO and myself and we will discuss it. I am happy to tell the public what the locals know and the lies that are being told by a lot of those concerned.
I suggest you examine this information and take a new tact on the whole take you have of all this. You have discussed the different levels of science and all their different reasons but none of them told the truth or did their job with diligence. If they did they would of advised us somewhere over the last 51 years that this entire Shire is suffering the worst known TCDD contamination ever known to mankind.
Lloyd. Your story on river contamination always interests me and I try to learn more each time I read one of your lengthy accounts.
However, you make this unattributed statement: “that this entire Shire is suffering the worst known TCDD contamination ever known to mankind.”
This is an incredulous claim. Do you have the scientific data to back this up?
Yes Rod I was the one that put the chemical there remember. I have all the science to prove everything I say about the river. You should know me well enough that I wont say something until I am absolutely certain. The biggest problem with all of this is science has absolutely failed us in this Shire. Because the Commonwealth Government has tried so hard to hide the Agent Orange spraying they did they have effectively made it impossible for the science to work it out. If it wasn’t for my non science contribution to this the contamination would never have been worked out. Luckily I have always been very diligent around chemicals and I quickly spotted the anomalies in the ABC reports you put up in our conversation in the beginning. By researching those facts with a non corrupted scientific mind I was able to work out what every scientist that has ever been paid to work in this system couldn’t. I am absolutely certain that this contamination is extremely dangerous and worse than ever happened in Vietnam. My spray gang alone put 270000 litres of this impure chemical onto the Noosa Shire. My father put out more than 400000litres of straight impure chemical into this Shire. Combined with the other contractors at the time I would estimate that there was more than 1,500000 litres of this impure spray put onto the Noosa Shire alone by contractors. If you times that number by three because a lot of land owners did the spraying themselves and add what the Noosa Council did itself you get close to five million litres of this impure 24-D was put into this environment. If you go to the ABC Four Corners program and look at the lab reports it will give you the exact amounts of TCDD per litre of spray. This will give you an extremely accurate idea of how bad this contamination really is. You can stay above the science completely by following the trail. Look at the Forestry departments accurate records for Groundsel Eradication throughout Australia and they will show you that the Noosa Shire was one of the heaviest infestations of this weed. I think they even give you estimates of how much spraying occurred in this area. Even Council kept accurate records of all Groundsel Eradication programs and amounts of impure chemical sold by them to land owners and contractors. If you had of been around then Rod you would now realise how much spraying this weed was part of the community. Everyone had to spray this weed with the impure chemical supplied. Like I told the Environmental officer for Noosa Council this morning the problem with all of this is no one knows which direction to head. I am trying my hardest to give them the right direction to advise the others who all seem to be hopelessly working without a cause or direction. As I advised Craig the oyster regeneration program should be funded by Biosecurity Australia as it was also under their watch that this contamination occurred. Fair enough they didn’t make the regulations but they should be involved in the clean up of this contamination to ensure it is done to satisfactory levels to safeguard the community.
At the moment the CSIRO has teamed up with ENTOX who is the only authority able to test for TCDD in Australia to further test the levels of Lake MacDonald. They intend on almost emptying this lake completely to test the dioxin levels in the sediment layers and reduced water. This will not only give them more accurate ongoing levels of TCDD it will also give them the data to see if it is related to the large fish kills out West. If you think that my information isn’t accurate Rod then how easy do you think it is to fool the APVMA, CSIRO,ENTOX,UQ, The Environmental Minister, the Prime minister , the Premier and members of Noosa Council who have all been unable to disprove any of my accurate information. They don’t go around draining entire Lake systems because one person says so unless that one person has vital credible information to prove it all to science. The head scientific division in Australia the APVMA reacted instantly to my information as they could see what I had uncovered was above science and needed to be worked out by science as fast as possible. I keep the pressure on them all by continually bringing in new players that I know are affected by this contamination but they don’t. This is a worldwide contamination and is much worse in Asia than here. Give me some credibility here Rod what I have uncovered has been continually tested and not one thing I have said the whole time about this contamination has been proven wrong by one person. Don’t you think I have ruffled enough feathers around here with people that have more access to this information than I ever will that someone would not of gone out of their way to prove me wrong? I did all the study before I brought it to the Governments attention because I wanted them to have accurate information to start with to ensure the enormity of the problem was realised. I knew that it was information that was not being properly relayed down the line because of one main factor. Because the impure chemical was laced with the killer dioxin TCDD most of the people that did this spraying are dead. The only person that could give the Government any idea of how much of this spray was used in this area and for how long was me. I had the credibility of actually working for all the Government departments controlling land on the Sunshine Coast spraying these weeds. Some places such as Baroon Pkt Dam kept spraying records of my work which also bolstered what I was telling them. Overall I had done enough work for the Government on all levels that my story couldn’t be faulted and once testing began everything I have said was realised. The Federal Government is obviously using ENTOX/CSIRO to avoid the local knowledge of what they are doing. Because I am the one continually telling them what they need to do next it is like a written response to me. I like the fact they are draining Lake Macdonald to test for TCDD but I think they should be more honest to the people drinking the water. The average citizen has no idea that if/when they find the TCDD contamination it will require total destruction and decontamination of every water pipe and holding tank in the entire Shire and further because the new line to the city will also be contaminated so will have to be replaced entirely. Any water tanks on any properties that have been filled by a water truck that provides this contaminated water will have to be replaced along with the entire plumbing of every affected house.
As you can imagine by now the more they find this chemical the more money that will have to be spent. Noosa Council needs to be hounding the Federal Government for the funds to commit to this contamination. At the moment there is internal mismanagement between too many groups. For a start the only ones qualified to test are ENTOX. They are controlled by the Federal Government who is responsible for this mistake. That creates a conflict of interest right from the start. We have the Federal Government investigating a Federal Government blunder that caused a serious contamination. To add to that the Federal and Commonwealth Governments control every word that ENTOX speaks. They are not even allowed to think without Government permission. Then you add another Federal Government controlled entity the CSIRO. They also are muffled by these Governments and only allowed to release what the respective Governments allow them to. Because the legal compensation from this contamination will go past the Trillions of dollars the Federal Government could try and save costs and not find the contamination. All of these scenario’s need to be monitored closely for deviations from the real facts. Because I have so much knowledge of how much spray was used and how and where the worst areas are I can easily tell when they are deviating or not telling the truth. I know exactly how much chemical was sprayed there and what that means in this contamination. Rod I keep a record and post all letters sent to Government and received in my group page @Agent Orange contamination in Australia. You are welcome to join and view all the science aspects of what I say. I wont post any for you because there is thousands of hours reading just to get an idea of it all.
Because I played a part in this contamination I feel a moral obligation to all the innocent people that are being affected. We are all dying like the oysters but no one is watching us like they do the oysters. This has exposed fundamental floors in the way all levels of Government deal with chemicals in this country. There seems to be no such thing as HAZMAT or any other entity to deal with chemical contaminations of this size in this country. The position I have in all this is very prominent because I have all the practical field knowledge that they have no idea of. That was why there was no reaction from Government both times the Four Corners approached them about the TCDD levels but as soon as I approached them they acted immediately. I can prove everything I say because it is genuine field knowledge that science had no idea about. No weed sprayers apart from me ever followed all of the science trail to see what they didn’t know. They were all like I was and believed that science was on top of all this and would never let this happen. It just so happened that because it killed my father I followed the scientific trail until I knew exactly what killed him. During that I learnt that science had got all of this wrong and could not be relied upon at all to govern the chemicals coming into Australia. I have done all I can to install my thirty years of dealing with this chemical in the field into the Government departments that can fix this. Now I have noticed that there is a lot of players looking for this chemical but there is no connections between any of them again. We have too many entities working in different directions for the same cause. There needs to be an independent group set up for the TCDD contamination and nothing else. This should be funded by the Federal Government but be given full disclosure rites to the other Government departments so as a combined plan can be formed. Groups such as the NPA and the NBRF should be able to be advised from this entity on any direction available in this ecosystem. If what they are planning with public monies is not in the interests of the contamination it needs the power to stop them. Until everyone is heading in the same direction with all of this we will keep wasting time and money on futile quick fixes. The oysters do need to be regenerated to restore the fish stocks but the TCDD has to be contained first. If the oysters are regenerated now they will bring more Marine life. That Marine life will also become contaminated and would be unfit for human consumption. There is no point in breeding Marine species just to further contaminate the entire Marine world. No one seems to understand that TCDD contaminated oysters will breed TCDD contaminated fish which will breed TCDD contaminated entire Marine life eventually. TNC, NBRF,NPA and the Noosa Council all seem to have no idea that all they will do with the oyster regeneration is make this contamination much worse. At the moment the numbers of fish are very low so the minimal amount will be affected. If they boost those stocks of contaminated fish they effectively boost the contamination into the Marine environment. This is exactly what has happened up until now. If you understood all the science you would think like me. With these groups I don’t think I could belt it into their heads with a sledge hammer. No one has ever stopped to think about “why should we keep feeding the contaminated fish more contaminated food?” The spin doctors have changed all of that to we want our fish back so lets give them more food.
Once you know the science has failed completely because of this it is quite easy to identify what has made the river decline so fast. That would be because you are feeding the contaminated fish with contaminated oysters so you have sped up the effects of the contamination without ever addressing the cause. That is what makes all of these entities not qualified to work in this environment.
Of course I am only an old weed sprayer who has been in the bush to long to some. I am not a trained scientist, thank goodness, and yet I can give more accurate information than any and every scientist in the country. I wish I could form the TCDD group to expose all of these frauds that are just playing the system for money. Rod I will keep slapping every member of the Noosa Council until they work this all out. What I am saying is what is right for humanity. Not politics or money or any other motive just it is what is right for humanity. I will keep taking small steps but I know my feet are bolted to the ground with this information so wont have them knocked out from under me. The whole world needs to learn this information but I am more worried about the Noosa environment at present. When our ecosystem is fixed or being repaired I will expand to other areas. At present I have to try and get all of these entities organised and going in the same direction. I have now accepted that I need to advise all of them personally on where they are going wrong to try and speed up the results. I am impressed that you think it is incredulous Rod. It is all real and correct so time will prove I came up with this incredulous information that saved millions of lives worldwide. Do you doubt my information in any way Rod?
Rod just for your local knowledge that’s what I wanted to tell Gloster with Trevor in their meeting. Trevor avoided what I knew because he had his own hidden information on this contamination. Put me in the same room as Gloster and I guarantee he will be exposed for the fraud he is. I am ashamed that prominent Councillors voted for the proposals of the NPA,NBRF and TNC. They will only speed up the contamination and wipe out more Marine life. In my opinion all of the positive voters for this idea should resign immediately from Council. Their poor research and absolute lack of local knowledge from the very people that vote them in is deplorable at best. Anyone that has the idea that oyster regeneration is needed in a TCDD contaminated environment should be barred from ever working in this Shire. The worst possible action that could be taken in this contaminated river is to regenerate contaminated oysters to encourage more Marine life to be contaminated as well. The damage has been done they cant keep building up the levels of contamination by increasing the numbers. This increase will most definitely become apparent in humans that eat this contaminated Marine life as well.
So far only Ingrid is showing us that enough diligence is not being done with any of this. Again she is the sole vote against this outrageous proposal. That is absolutely disgusting. She is a newcomer to this whole issue and yet can see that things don’t seem to be right with the level of diligence in Council. What about long term Councillors like Brian Stockwell? Why is he proposing anything to do with this oyster failure project? He is definitely aware of the extent of 24-D spraying throughout the Shire and has been informed of everything that caused the contamination including the TCDD levels yet still chooses to vote for this brainless idea. I am disgusted in him and the Mayor and deputy Mayor. They have proven themselves to be totally brain-dead when it comes to what is going on in our Shire. They seem to have taken all this as a joke that can be fixed by making a few fishermen happy. They have shown a total blatant disregard for all residents of the Shire and they don’t care less about the environment. It has all become about who is getting the next lot of money they throw in the trough. Nothing more is thought about by these Councillors that vote for these absolutely ridiculous ideas. They are presently bringing the Noosa Council into disrepute and will force legal action against them to stop there stupid acts. I would like to see this matter addressed again at the next Council meeting and I will attend to see who is stupid enough to chuck more money in this trough.
Because it seems that Gloster is able to brainwash certain not so smart Councillors he should be banned from Council chambers at all times and made to resign all positions held in the community. His actions alone have sped up this contamination by fifty years all because he was never qualified to do the job in the first place. He now still thinks that speeding up this contamination is a good idea and has brainwashed Council into paying him another couple of Million dollars. The whole venture is floored and should be dumped at the nearest Waste Disposal area. It is absolute junk not science. I know more about science than he will ever learn and he is supposed to be a Doctor? No wonder why he works for Council. Couldn’t they work out this man isn’t qualified by what he was telling them? I can… The TNC is no better. They will take a few million to make this contamination worse just as they have done in other parts of Australia for more millions. When will the people do their own homework and learn that what I’m saying is dead on the money. When will someone with knowledge of TCDD ever be given a voice in this TCDD contaminated environment? Do we need a scientist to come and tell us that all scientists have failed in this ecosystem because of poor science? That is the reality of it all. The only ones too stupid to see all of this is the Noosa Council who keep handing out Millions of Ratepayer dollars to whoever comes up with an idea. It doesn’t matter if that idea will make it worse and boost the effects on the whole environment they will pay Millions for that anyway. I feel it is time that the Courts were involved to ensure these idiots are stopped in their tracks. Gloster should be sacked along with all positive voters of this idea. It does not have any merit and will make this contamination much worse very quickly. I will start seeing solicitors this week to force the issue through Council. We have suffered enough from these bumbling fools in Council. Let’s get rid of them all and start fresh with a Council that cant be corrupted by the first idea that is presented to them by an unqualified nothing. Perhaps Ingrid or Sandy can help me start a petition calling for the sacking of these people due to the reckless representation of the people that voted them in.
This is the story that should have been in the Noosa News not the absolute dribble they printed. The editor and report writer should also be sacked for their blatant lies to the community. It is this type of crap media that allows idiots like Gloster to keep extracting money from this Council. As Ingrid has shown us there is no level of diligence in this Council it is all about what will we finance Gloster to do next. Does anyone else see a problem with all of that? Does anyone notice that all the positive votes come from the established “boys club” members on any ideas Gloster comes up with? When do residents decide they have had enough of this stupidity and call for their resignations? We are very lucky Ingrid came along with much more diligent experience than any of our locals or it might not ever be exposed. Why is it up to the locals to expose the Councillors for the frauds they really are? Cant they just resign because they didn’t have the intelligence to work out what they were being told? It’s time the public were made aware of what is really going on in the Noosa Shire and what those poor decisions are doing to our environment and us…….
Lloyd, firstly thank you for going to the trouble of given me such a detailed and lengthy perspective. My immediate reaction is – I hope that you are wrong!
I am aware that Department of Environment & Science, were involved with the initial Noosa Fish Health Investigation Taskforce (NFHIT) and that Council has met with several of the people involved in that taskforce and many other scientists. I understand that you did contact one of the scientists at that time. While this meeting didn’t address a 2-headed fish found from a hatchery it did discuss many, many outstanding questions regarding the so-called ‘Noosa River Syndrome’ – the theory that the characteristics of the Noosa River itself are part of the cause – a major theme of my writings around the changes that the river mouth relocation and dredging have and continue to have on the entire river system.
What is alarming is that most of the NFHIT recommendations were never competed for our river! There was lack of any follow up reporting on the outcomes of the actions; no creation of a government standing committee to address fish health issues in waterways; the single electrofishing survey in the river did not find any abnormalities and most importantly, and again one of my central themes a lack of continued survey work.
So all of the work that this taskforce did at great cost has slipped off into the sunset with no action! The lack of accountability for tax payers money never ceases to amaze me sadly.
But to your central theme – TOXINS. Of the 74 original, mainly scientific reports, NONE of the work goes to the heart of what you are saying being to answer the question ‘Are there toxins in our river?’. The extensive sampling undertaken at the time found no evidence of any water quality contaminants to cause concern, in fact they confirmed what Council believed to be true at the time, the quality of water in the Noosa River was excellent. I struggle to believe that there was conspiracy by them to cover up such an issue. The real problem was that not everything was tested for so a judgement on risk was made with the sampling regime, and it is possible that something could have been missed.
Even amongst the NFHIT taskforce scientists there was dissenting views about so many issues and the extent of problems – so if scientists cannot agree what chance do we have? As I was told, there was nothing in the output of the NFHIT to lend any support to your claims, however nor what they did specifically refute them either, as specific testing for TCDD appears not to have been undertaken?
As you correctly point out what should happen is that someone either prove or rule out what you claim. Either Council needs to voluntarily or be forced to specifically test for TCDD’s now and as part of a structured regime of research or we should do a whip-around to community fund it. I totally agree if TCDD’s do exist at levels that are negatively impacting everything then finding ways to correct that should be No.1 priority. Logic does challenge us to resolve this once and for all and then move on.
God help us if you are correct but I won’t go into ‘Chicken Little’ mode like some.
Thanks Nick,
I hope it fills in the gaps for you somewhat. I wish it wasn’t true but worst luck it is deadly accurate. As you say the problem in the past is there has been too much quarrelling over what the real reasons were. That was because none of them knew the real reason. If they had of all known then all of their testing would of formed together to tell us how bad it was and what could possibly be done to stop it getting worse. Sorry to go into so much detail but it is the story that you cant really tell pieces of. It has to all fit together to understand the whole thing. The Government doesn’t want to let on how accurate my information is. You can tell that by how much they interact with me in public over these outrageous concerns. With the new laws around online security they could and would arrest anyone else for claiming what I am. I am not claiming. I know for sure. That is the major difference here. I put the poison there so I know exactly how much chemical is in this Shire. The next thing that is obvious is they are draining Lake MacDonald completely and the Noosa Council doesn’t even know why. It is being done in secrecy by entities that don’t contact Councils do you wonder why? Noosa Council wasn’t aware that UQ is the only place that can test for TCDD in Australia until I told them. This contamination is as bad as I say it is just they all want to keep it a secret as long as possible. Bit hard when they have me around but they are doing a good job of not telling a soul what they are doing or why.
If you can help to try and unite everyone that is working in this ecosystem to the one common cause please feel free to. I am a lone soldier with enough firepower to win a war. Any help I can gather along the way is much appreciated. I would really like to see your story told by a scientist that knew what TCDD does and adjusted to they did know about the TCDD contamination and show us what changes should have been made if it was known from the start.
Lloyd, I don’t think the Government is not listening, I think they are just so overwhelmed by all the contaminants all across Queensland. Noosa is but one river, and probably one of the better ones. What about all the other rivers and waterways that suffer from all sorts of contamination. We’ve seen what a disaster the PFAS contamination has been lately, and what about that massive plume of toxins that have washed off farms, through industrial areas, over our roads, overflows from tailings dams at mines both functional and abandoned with the latest floods around Townsville. Where do we even start?
Personally I think the blame game is over, we are all part of it, and we have to focus on cleaning it up. We need to create many many jobs for our youth and empower them to solve this problem. Instead of giving $1.2 million into a stand alone project, how many guardians can we employ to do regular testing, to learn from the wonderful volunteers like NICA and Landcare who can pass on their local knowledge and ensure we leave a greater legacy.
In all of these issues, human beings are the problem. We need to change the way we do things, and money needs to be invested to help guide this change.
Once we clean up our act, mother nature will restore herself. Oysters will grow back by themselves. Let’s sort out the causes first.
Very well put Desire. As you correctly point out the problem is humans nothing else. It is what they have done and then haven’t done that caused this mess. You mention lots of everyday contaminations that are nowhere near this league of chemical. The only one you mention that is in the same league is Pfas. The TCDD contamination is millions of times worse than the Pfas contamination in Australia. There is no known Pfas contamination of any Australian drinking water. Almost every Australian drinking water containment area is contaminated with TCDD. That is the main difference in this contamination. The other small issue is it has been in the drinking water undetected for more than fifty years. This has spiked the Cancer rates and birthing problems in Australia that are now the worst rates in the world for a single population. The population shower in one of the most deadliest substances known to mankind and we have the highest rate of Melanoma’s in the world. Don’t you think that because all of that cancer is caused by one single thing TCDD that it should be addressed? Do you have a friend or family that have had an unnatural birthing problem or still birth? They too are directly affected by drinking and being exposed to TCDD. This is a chemical like no other it is infinitely strong for Centuries. To give you an idea of how strong it is imagine the size of an air particle that you would breathe in. If that particle had 10 Trillionths of TCDD it is considered toxic to humans. So it is not hard to see why Asthmatics die during the dust storms and thunderstorms. This chemical is one of the few that are measured in Trillionths because it is so strong. As this is the worst known chemical contamination in Australia and it is affecting the majority of the population for the next Four hundred years it is much more important than you portray. This isn’t something they can forget about or not notice. That is why the Governments are draining the Lake here. Noosa is merely the first place that noticed it and started the action firstly Australia wide and then the world. This is much bigger than you imagine. This is world news not Noosa has pollution to.
You are so on the money with this”Once we clean up our act, mother nature will restore herself. Oysters will grow back by themselves. Let’s sort out the causes first.” that I think it should become the slogan for the Noosa Council. I might check with the local printer Adam and see if he can make me up some bumper stickers with that motto. Would you mind if I use it?
Nick I’m not sure if you know but no one can force TCDD testing in Australia. No-one is allowed to test for it at all except ENTOX at UQ. Even if the Federal Government ordered the testing it is up to ENTOX as to whether they do the testing. They are not required to by law but can assist the Government where possible. There is a wall of secrecy around testing for TCDD in this country and some extreme laws to provide that. Sandy Bolton has been frantically working behind the scenes to try and tear a hole in this wall to allow the Council and DAF and DES to be able to test freely for this chemical.
What we need to do is try and somehow coax Professor Caroline Gaus, who is the absolute expert in Australia on TCDD, into having a meeting with Noosa residents to explain what this all means. She is retired from an extensive and long career so it would be difficult but there is no-one to replace her as yet. She knows how to work it out exactly and she knows every effect that will have on humans and the environment. Because of everyone doing their independent thing to try and hide what is really going on the Noosa Council should try and buy some of her time to advise both Council and the citizens of this area everything they need to know about TCDD. She is the scientific expert we need to guide us how to live with this monster. People might listen to her and take notice more than me telling them. I would be happy to join her in that discussion to detail the follow on effect that will have for the locals that live here. As most locals don’t know what TCDD is I am able to ask all the questions they haven’t even thought about yet. I am sure that she would give the same advice as me but in scientific detail instead of local common language. I would like to have her scientifically back up what I am trying to get through to everyone.
They are draining Lake Macdonald in the next week or two so that will give them some idea of a starting level of contamination. That level should be made available to the residents that have been drinking that water for the last 51 years or less.
At this stage there is no connection between the people doing the tests CSIRO/ENTOX and the Noosa Council or the State of Qld. This means there is no avenue that can get hold of these results. I would hope that ENTOX is forthcoming with these results to assure the general public they are known levels. As the general public know this water is contaminated with TCDD it is only the current level that will change everything. If any TCDD is found at all it means all the water transport infrastructure has to be replaced from one end to the other. That means new Lakes would need to be built in new catchment areas or the catchment area would have to be decontaminated by incineration for three days similar to what they are doing right now in Vietnam. Right down to every single house that is or was hooked up to town water will have to have all plumbing replaced. None of the pipes they pull out can be dumped until they are decontaminated.
I believe the Premier has been to Lake Macdonald personally to oversee the planned direction of CSIRO/ENTOX. Obviously this testing will also be valid for the entire water network through SEQ. Once they find the TCDD the only thing they can hope is that the levels are below ten parts per trillion so they are not toxic to humans. I don’t think there is any safe level of water with TCDD in it but science has recommended levels that should be followed. Hopefully all this action is good for us and they will be honest and keep testing every avenue until it is all gone. It will soon be obvious to me whether they are telling the real story but if they tell no story it will make life hard for the Council. Hopefully Sandy can keep bridging the gaps to try and join all of these entities together with the information at least.
The interesting question here is “What would you do if you found out that the town water you have been drinking has been poisoning you since the first glass and the water you were showering in was leaving a toxic chemical on your skin that would cause Melanoma’s and Lymphoma’s?” . I think the Government wants to know that straight away. Of course that doesn’t relate to we have the worst rate of Melanoma’s in the world does it?
That’s why the oysters have been put on hold in case you hadn’t noticed. People first and then if they think this time oysters last. Because of all the secrecy involved with the TCDD it is making it a nightmare for everyone to understand. If they were to believe me they have a fair understanding of what is happening and why. I don’t mind if they believe me or they don’t. If they don’t they are left very confused about what is going on. Do they believe the local newspaper and expect the ruling monarch Gloster to announce it to the people? Do they believe the Mayor who has just voted for the turbo charging of the contamination into the Marine environment? He obviously thinks the CSIRO/ENTOX are a pack of idiots draining the Lake for no reason at all. His attitude is carry on lets keep spending millions on breeding contaminated oysters to contaminate the fish so they can contaminate the humans so that we can speed up the whole cycle by a Thousand percent. Do they trust the Deputy Mayor who also voted for this same idea. He too shows total ignorance to the TCDD contamination by promoting boosting it’s effects on the environment and humans. Do they trust the other Councillors that also voted for this project also showing there ignorance of their surroundings and the welfare of the people they are supposed to be representing. So far we only have one Councillor that is suspicious that the due diligence hasn’t been done on this multi Million Dollar deal. Obviously the Federal Government is doing it’s due diligence with all this by draining our water supply yet Noosa Council is almost entirely voting for more oysters? Maybe I need to speak directly to the CEO to try and stop these people being Noosa’s worst nightmare. I thought Brian Stockwell would have worked all of this out by now. No wonder this has just kept happening. The Council is asleep when it comes to the facts about the condition of the water around the Shire but is still handing out millions to the very person that has wiped out the fish stocks by breeding contaminated oysters. Hard to believe this level of stupidity still goes on in Council. Worse still is that ratepayers are paying for it.
What the Noosa Council should focus on and what the donation from the Thomas Foundation should be spent on is the upgrading of our Sewerage Treatment Plant. This seems like a crap idea but I’ll explain why it isn’t.
Firstly the Noosa Council has no business or Authority in the river or Lakes. It will be lucky to even learn the results of all the testing. As the Higher Government entities wont say anything to Council about what they are doing they also cant advise Council that breeding oysters is extremely bad for the environment. They have to remain silent. So Noosa Council is more or less on it’s own in this mess. So what can it do? The only way they can reduce this contamination is by filtering out the TCDD from the sewerage. That is the only upgrade they can possibly do to change this contamination in any way. They have no control over anything else that needs to be changed apart from what is decided with Noosa Sound and Hasting Street Planning.
What is obvious to the local untrained eye is that the TCDD contamination that occurred in 1968 caused a major disruption to this ecosystem. Because the chemical is so toxic it slowly builds up in everything and because it lasts longer than forever that just keeps getting stronger. The human accumulation levels have been worked out and the toxic levels are known but what about every living Flora and Fauna in this same environment? There hasn’t been studies done on what different species do when exposed to this dioxin. There was one study where the scientists again failed to work out it involved TCDD. There was dredging done in an area near Gladstone that saw the rise of one species of fish and a major decline in other species. If they had of known it was TCDD contamination coming from the dredged sediment layers that contained the TCDD from the spraying of the Agent Orange years earlier they could of studied the species that showed a spike in surviving this deadly chemical. But no science still hasn’t worked any of that out yet.
What has happened here is the TCDD has washed through the river system building in strength the whole time. All Marine species then have raised levels of TCDD which they pass on to anything that eats them. When the people in the local area eat that seafood they will retain some of the dioxin but will also pass some of it through their bodies. Then the dioxin flows through to the Sewerage Treatment plant where it is left totally untreated contaminating everything in it’s path and wreaking havoc with the Bacteria in the plant and related infrastructure. It then flows down the creek and out into the ocean.
Because of poor ecological hydrology the contaminated water then travels around the headland. Settles in Laguna Bay where the Blue Green algae grows and then is sucked back into the river during the incoming tide. As the TCDD never loses strength no matter how long it takes to complete the circle of the headland we have TCDD coming out of the river and we have TCDD going into the river again. This double ended increasing contamination keeps getting worse. As the system is ever increasing it’s TCDD levels they will eventually kill everything in this ecosystem that cant survive TCDD or any of the mutated bacteria it produces.
The only way they can stop that happening is to somehow, as I mentioned earlier for the wetlands, create a filter that can extract the TCDD. It needs to become part of the new Treatment Plant to stop this contamination doing the loop back into the river. If you look at the History of the loop you will see the evidence of the TCDD became apparent after heavy rains causing the algae outbreak in the Bay and other spikes in serious illness near the outlet area. So what we have is a totally TCDD contaminated Treatment plant that is continually contaminating the water that passes through it which in turn runs back into the river. If the sewerage wasn’t TCDD contaminated before it gets there it is definitely while it is there and sent back to the river. The people keep drinking the water and eating the seafood containing the TCDD so the levels keep increasing in this circle of death.
A new treatment Plant with a TCDD filtering capacity needs to be built ASAP. If they can filter it out there they will stop the circle of death entirely and let the dioxin wash out of the river. At the moment there is as much or more coming in from the river mouth as there is coming from the catchment area.
If the Higher Governments do their work diligently the river mouth will be returned to where it was and the flow will be increased again. If the Noosa Council doesn’t stop the flow of TCDD coming from the Sewerage Treatment Plant before this happens they will still make the contamination worse. As has been recognised this whole circle of death scenario was made much worse when the fish were regenerated with oysters. That meant that more Marine life was contaminated so the humans ate more TCDD than they normally would have. The spike in the TCDD that caused through the Treatment plant and around the circle was what led to the river condition of today. That also led to the loss of breeding stock. Remember all of that breeding stock is contaminated so shouldn’t be encouraged to breed further than it naturally can until the TCDD levels are brought down to safe levels.
That is the direction the Noosa Council need to take which is the methodical way to fix this problem and have the biggest impact going into the future. It will take good science to develop a prototype TCDD filter but it is ground breaking technology that the world needs so badly so there is no reason why it cant be started here. That particular industry alone would earn trillions around the world once developed and would save the entire planet from becoming too toxic for humans eventually.
I think developing this new technology that will help the entire world once created is a worthwhile cause for the Thomas Foundation to realign to under the circumstances. That would make their last Legacy here in Noosa to be to create the new technology for the world which is a very noble way to end this Foundation.
It will probably take Science and Government ten years or more to work all of this out but when they do we will be on the road to recovery at last. Then the rest of the world can learn from the precedents that were set here. Let’s get Noosa on the map for the right reasons again. This will be world news so set the best example….